<< Interviews this month
file under heavy / power metal
There are still people out there who think that Christian artists just can not make decent metal. Now tons of bands have proven otherwise in the past, just think of the likes of Stryper, Transatlantic (Neal Morse), Tourniquet and Impellitteri, but for those of stubborn minds now there is Theocracy. In our November 2004 issue you could have read how no less than two – pretty much unbelieving – LoM journalists were thrilled out the debut CD of this new band. Guest writer Patrick Verhoeven took some time out to fire some pretty soul-searching questions upon Matt Smith, the guy who was solely responsible on everything you hear on this album. I mean, this is some achievement, which leads me to believe some kind of divine intervention must have taken place… (Horst)
Text: Patrick
Can you tell me a little about the response the album has received this far? Do these responses compare with what you had expected?
The response has been pretty good, and sales have been steady. We’re not moving huge numbers, but it’s still selling, and that’s really encouraging. The fact that it didn’t sell all it’s copies in the first week and completely die off is a good sign. Most of the reviews have been very, very positive, which is great.
 THEOCRACY seems to be a one-man project. Are you such a loner?
It just came down to the resources I had available at the time. I really didn’t know any other musicians in the area who were into this kind of music, so I decided I’d just go ahead and do it all myself. I had played with other friends before, but they either moved or went on to do other things, etc., so by the time I was ready to record the album, I decided it would be easier just to do everything. Fortunately, it looks like that was a one-time only thing!
You have been doing almost anything on the album by yourself. How did you accomplish such a colossal mission by yourself? How did you teach yourself all these different things? How come you play all these different instruments so well?
I’m actually not a very good player on most of the instruments. For instance, I’m a terrible keyboard player, but I just practiced the parts enough to be able to play and record them. Also, I’m not a good bass player; I play bass like I play guitar, but I’m not a true bass player. It was enough to get me by for the album, but I’d prefer not to have to do it again. So I’m definitely not a virtuoso at all. It was a LOT of work to do everything, though. It almost killed me. I’m actually still surprised at how it turned out, especially on the production/mixing front. It doesn’t sound awesome, but it sounds OK, and when I think back to how little I knew about production/mixing and how much I’ve learned since then, I realize that it’s a miracle that the album even sounds as good as it does.
Do you prefer a specific brand of guitars and/or other material? What brand drums do you play Shawn? Is that because this brand provides the sound you prefer or…?
I’m not really a “brand” guy, except maybe with my amps; I love Mesa/Boogie stuff and think they’re a great company. I used a TriAxis for the first album and plan to use a Mark IV for the next one. But even so, if I hear an amp that I think blows away my Mark IV someday, I’m sure I’ll change that as well. It’s all about what sounds best. But right now I couldn’t be much happier with my Mesa stuff, so I don’t see that happening in the near future. The only electric guitar I use is my ESP Explorer. Not because I have to use that brand, but because that guitar was very expensive so of course I’m going to use it to get my money’s worth out of it! Just kidding, haha! It sounds great. I also have a beautiful-sounding Alvarez 12-string acoustic that you’ll hear on the next record, and a Samick 6-string that I still have to get repaired. Keyboard is a Roland XP-30.
Three of the songs are over 11 minutes, and all of your songs are not under four and a half minutes. With only nine songs (‘Prelude’ not included) the album takes almost 70 minutes. Is there a specific reason for the lengthy songs or is it something that just worked out this way while writing the songs? Can you tell me something of the process of writing a THEOCRACY song?
I don’t know why I tend to write a lot of long songs; I guess it’s my love for a lot of progressive metal. It’s just easier to write long songs sometimes, and I love a good epic. You hear some bands say, “It’s harder to write a short song than a long, complex one,” and in a lot of ways that’s true. It’s exciting to write a long song because there are no boundaries or formulas, and so it feels a bit more creative. For me, it mostly depends on the subject matter. If you look at the long songs on the album, songs like “The Healing Hand” and “Twist of Fate,” there would really have been no way to squeeze all I felt I needed to say into a short song. Lyrically, those songs work in movements with different sections emphasizing different points, or questioning and bringing resolution, or advancing the story. It’s a bit like a complex movie script in the way the parts work together to build the song to a climax lyrically. So those songs need their length and different moods. On the other hand, songs like “Theocracy” and “New Jerusalem” are more direct and concise in their subject matter; they’re more focused on a single point, so it doesn’t take as long to get that point across.
As for the writing process, I usually write the music first, though it’s a lot easier if I at least have an outline of what I want to say in the lyrics so I can make sure it works effectively together (peaks and valleys and all that). I try to record different riffs and melodies that I come up with over time so I have a big library of parts to work from. I usually have a stockpile of a lot of different parts, and eventually I figure out which ones work together and work with a certain lyrical idea I have. That’s when it really becomes exciting and takes off. There are also a lot of rewrites and parts thrown away. I might realize that a melody I was using for a different song would go perfect in this song, etc. It takes a while sometimes, but I like to try to make every song timeless, and sometimes that’s what it takes. I don’t believe in having filler songs on an album.
 After the release Shawn has been added to the band. Are there plans to add more people to the band? How do you choose people to become a member of THEOCRACY (auditions perhaps)? What talents and/or personality do these new members have to bring along?
We actually just announced a third member, bassist Seth Filkins. I definitely hope to add more; definitely at least one other guitarist, or maybe two (so I can just concentrate on vocals). We haven’t really held official “auditions”. We just kind of jam with different people to get as many options as we can and gain more experience. We’ve already played with some good guitarists, for example. To be honest, however, so much of my time is going into equipping the studio and learning production stuff and writing songs that I’m not rushing to add other band members just yet. As for what I’m looking for, obviously they have to be able to play the parts and add a new skill level to the band. I’d like for all the members to be Christians because we are a Christian band, and although I’m far from the witness I should be, I still think of Theocracy as a ministry as well. It’s important for everybody to have similar goals and be on the same page when you’re talking about something as binding as a band. And as far as personality, well, everyone’s different. But there’s a certain amount of confidence and charisma that it takes to perform onstage as well, so that does factor into it.
On your website I read that the major influences of Matt are bands as Iron Maiden and Queensryche and people as Steve Harris and Tobias Sammet. Are there any other bands/people who influenced you (both musically and lyrically)?
Oh man, I have so many influences. Yeah, musically it’s mostly classic metal, power and progressive metal bands. Lyrically, James Hetfield was a huge influence in my formative writing years. He taught me how to phrase things and make things sound powerful and not so straightforward and cliché. But nowadays I don’t really have any lyrical influences; I just kind of write what I feel. The musicians that influence me are the great songwriters. That’s my passion.
Are your songs all about living a life with God or do you use any subject in the lyrics? Where do you get the subjects from the song from? How important is the content of the lyrics for you?
All of the lyrics come from a Christian perspective, but they’re definitely about different things. Lyrical content is EXTREMELY important to me. I work very hard on my lyrics and take them very seriously. Song subjects can come from anywhere. It can be something that I find myself thinking about a lot or that I felt was laid on my heart, it can be something inspired by an experience that I had or a friend had…inspiration can come from anywhere.
All the songs on the album have been written by Matt. Will Shawn add his influences to the new material?
Most definitely. I was thinking about this the other day, actually. Now that I’m playing with such a great drummer, I realize how important it is to have a great drummer. There’s really no way to explain it other than you can just feel how the drummer sets the energy level in a lot of ways when you’re playing. If the drummer keeps the groove locked and keeps an edge and energy going, it’s contagious and really just magical. That’s why I’m so thankful for Shawn. Not only is he a great friend and a perfect fit for the band, but he really makes me play better and takes it to another level. Plus, he’s completely insane (and I’m not talking about his playing—he is insane, period).
 The cover art has been done by Mattias Noren. How did that cooperation came together?
I loved his work for Evergrey. One day I came across him on the web and checked out his website, contacted him and went from there. I can’t say enough good things about Mattias. He was such a huge help with the cover. Since this was a self-titled album with no real central theme and a lot of different subjects, I knew some elements I wanted on the cover, but didn’t know where to take it and how to tie it all together. He totally took my ideas and ran with them, and he deserves a great deal of credit for how the cover came out, even besides the actual physical designing of it.
I can imagine it must be very challenging to play your music live. Can we expect THEOCRACY live on a stage someday?
Absolutely! We’re rehearsing a lot and getting better. We’re going to start playing some little shows here and there even now, just to get some experience. It’s going well so far; I’m really pleased with how the material sounds. I didn’t know how well it would translate live, because the album is so layered, but most things work really well, even though they obviously sound stripped down. I think it’s because when I wrote the songs, I was really conscious of having the backbone of the songs be strong—great riffs, catchy choruses, etc.—before I worried about putting the layers on. Therefore, I think the songs are strong in their most basic forms, and while the bombastic and thick layers add to the experience, the songs aren’t so dependent on those elements that they fall apart when stripped down. At least that’s how I feel about it; others may differ. Of course, I’m so used to hearing the rehearsal versions now that I barely remember what some of the album versions sound like.
Any update info on new material, t-shirts and the studio? How is work on the studio progressing? Will fans be able to order some merchandise in the future? The new material on the video provided on your website sounds very promising. In the same video you say that the new material is not close to being ready. Are there already new songs totally ready?
Yes, we have around five songs that are pretty much totally ready except for some possible tweaks to the arrangements. Then I have a bunch more ideas on top of those. I probably have too many basic ideas at this point to fit on one album, so right now I’m just trying to finish the ideas I’ve started on and work on the basic shells of songs so I can decide what to keep and what to change and what to discard. There’s still a ton of stuff to do; I don’t rush the songwriting. I want every song on the next album to be a classic, just like I wanted for the first album. We’re accepting pre-orders for t-shirts already. You can see the design at www.theocracymusic.com. I think it’s a cool-looking shirt; Deron did a great job on the design.
How important is the Internet for THEOCRACY? What are your feelings on Kazaa, ZPOC and other downloadable music programs? Do you think they can help you or hurt you?
Both. I download stuff myself, but if I like it I’m going to buy it and support the band. The good thing about downloading is that it lets you find out if something is worth the money. I’m sorry, but I’m not going to spend my cash on an album with two good songs. I think a lot of record company people and artists are kinda scared of that, but if they would put out consistently quality material, that might help. People are tired of paying $18.99 for two good tracks, and that’s a good thing. On the other hand, there are certainly plenty of people who just download everything and don’t buy any CDs. Take it from me, those of us in this kind of music make almost no money, so we’re very thankful for every bit of support we can get. If you like an album, buy it. I do think metal fans are generally better about this because they’re simply the most loyal fans around, and because metal isn’t really based on “hit single success” like other genres, but it’s still a problem for some people. As for me, I like having the actual album, with uncompressed audio and artwork and lyrics. Only having MP3s isn’t nearly as enjoyable for me. I like to dig deeper into albums I love. Anyway, the Internet has been very important for us. We’re on a small label, so most of our support has come from Internet exposure and good reviews. Magazines have helped to, but I don’t think the album would have gotten the word of mouth it did without the Internet.
What cd’s are you playing most these days? Do you feel it’s important as an artist to listen to other bands? Why?
That’s a good question. I don’t really know, because I don’t think about it like that. I just listen to other bands because I love music. It inspires and excites me like nothing else! I constantly get chills listening to different bands and songs almost every day. There are so many incredible musicians and songwriters out there.
As for what I’ve been playing lately, well, I’ve been listening to a lot of Neal Morse’s stuff lately. Everyone should go pick up his “Testimony” album; it’s such a powerful and moving work of art. As a Christian, it will just fill you with joy and maybe even bring you to tears - it blows me away! It’s more prog rock than prog metal, but the songwriting is top-notch. I’ve been listening to a lot of Neal’s stuff for the past year; Transatlantic’s “Bridge Across Forever” has been getting a lot of spins lately. I think some of Neal’s best writing is on that CD, although it took a while to grow on me. As for other stuff, Nightwish’s “Once” may end up being the album of the year for me. Tuomas is one of my songwriting heroes, and this album is just incredible. I’ve also been listening to the latest Ayreon, “The Human Equation”. Brilliant stuff, especially disc one. The new Killswitch Engage album is good too; very aggressive with an awesome production. I could go on forever! I’ve actually bought some CDs lately just because of the production, to learn from them sonically. Basically, that means that I am a huge nerd in some ways!
 Some people say there's something as Christian music, some say music is universal and they don't agree that labels should be applied to the content of the lyrics or the beliefs of the people who create the music. How do you feel about labeling bands?
I don’t really understand why some people get so bent out of shape about it. I mean, on one hand it’s cool to think back to the times before the mid-late seventies, when music was just music and basically labeled as good or bad. Or you might have had general categories like rock, jazz, blues, etc. but then it divided into rock and hardrock and then heavy metal and now it’s freaking ridiculous with all the “Inverse Epic Mathematical Progressive Symphonic Hollywood Power Hobbit Melodic Pseudo Grind Mallcore Metal” types. Labels are marketing tools, basically. But, on the other hand, it’s kinda necessary to a degree now, just because there are so many different styles and so many bands. It helps you get in the ballpark of what you’re looking for as a fan when you’re trying to check out new bands.
As for “Christian music,” well, I think music is music, but “out of the heart flow the issues of life.” People will write what’s important to them, and that’s how it should be. We are a Christian band, and proud of it. I don’t understand a lot of these bands who are like, “Don’t call us a Christian band! That’s so limiting! We appeal to a broad audience and don’t want to alienate people. We’re just spiritual.” If I ever say something like that, please shoot me on the spot. I do not care who Theocracy alienates. This is not about money for me AT ALL. Trust me, if you could look at my bank account you’d know that’s the truth. I mean, of course it would be nice to be able to make a living doing this one day, and of course I’d like for as many people as possible to “get it.” But I’ll never water anything down for anyone. If people don’t get it or don’t like it, well, there’s plenty out there for them to listen to; that’s the beauty of music. I think music is like food in a lot of ways; there are so many different styles out there that there’s something for everyone, for sure.
Then there’s the “Christian music industry,” which I have a few negative feelings about. By all accounts, the Christian industry is just as dirty and cutthroat and ruthless as the secular industry, if not more so. That’s really sad. It just seems to me like some kind of exclusive little club, and that doesn’t interest me. Obviously I’m speaking in very broad and stereotypical terms here, but I’ve heard the same thing from a lot of people. I’m not interested in having to fit in some neat little box and meet certain criteria to appeal to a certain demographic and make money. I’d rather just be who I am and say whatever I feel like writing about through my music, and let the chips fall as they may. A lot of people who like the Theocracy album aren’t Christians, but they loved the music and thought it was well-done so they’re fans. And I appreciate every single person who has supported the album. All I can do is my best. If I succeed in saying what I set out to say, and if it glorifies God in the way it’s done, then that’s all I can do. It’s not important to me which “market” I have success in. I want people in general to enjoy my music, not just Christians. Otherwise, what’s the point? Talk about playing it safe. MetalAges Records (our label) just tries to sign good bands, period. It’s not a “Christian label” per se, in the marketing sense, but Deron (the head of the label) is a Christian and a great friend.
Some Christians (and non-Christians) would say that hardcore, metal and genres like that are depressive and destructive, and have nothing to do in Christian settings. What are your opinions?
I would say that those people are depressive and destructive, and have nothing to do in Christian settings. :) Ha! Just kidding. Seriously though, I think metal is the most powerful and emotional music out there. Why would you use anything less to talk about the most powerful and important subject matter in existence? I mean, I like other kinds of music and don’t mean to sound like a snob or like other genres don’t have their place. But nothing has the peaks and valleys and contrast that you can present with metal. I personally don’t get the black metal and death metal and hardcore stuff, so I can see the point of some of those people. Screaming “JESUS LOVES YOU!!!!” in the most unintelligible and angry voice you can muster is kind of humorous to me, but hey, whatever speaks to your soul. A lot of bands just seem to have no clue about making the music and the lyrics work together and build together and compliment each other. If used correctly, metal can do that like no other music out there, and that’s one of the things so wonderful about it. It’s all about how you use the tools.
Any final comments or words of wisdom for our readers?
Well, I’m not very high in the wisdom department, so I don’t think I can help much there. :) But I’d like to thank the readers for checking out this interview. I appreciate it so much! God bless you all, and thanks for supporting the music you love. You can always check out our website (www.theocracymusic.com) for more information if you’re not familiar with us. Also, I would like to give a special thanks to Patrick for being SO incredibly patient with me. I got so busy with other things that it took me FOREVER to finish this interview, and for that I apologize. But Patrick was awesome and stuck with me…thank you so much, my friend!
http://www.theocracymusic.com
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